Steve over at Triablogue made a post in where he tried to flip the table on us, but such a thing is extremely difficult to do when we have the Eastern Fathers and great Church Councils under our belt.
How can we be an Eastern heresy if we preserved the Truth? Unlike Steve Hays, we can actually trace most of our beliefs back to the early centuries. We can actually point not only to Scripture for our beliefs, but to great men of the Faith and to Church Councils as well! This is something he can't do!
And so whatever he says about us, he must also say about the historic Christian Faith in general. To fight against us is to fight against the great Eastern (and early Western) Church Fathers, councils, and creeds!
Also, he is not even in agreement with the semi-Augustinian position of the post-2nd-Orange Christian West. And so he really doesn't have a leg to stand on. His interpretation of the doctrine of the Trinity is far from being the historic Christian one. Yes, he is trying to flip the tables on us, but to do so is to destroy any real sense of doctrinal continuity with the past.
For how could he embrace, in good conscience, some of the Ecumenical creeds and non-Augustinian Fathers of the past, while at the same time calling us an Eastern heresy? What in the world does he think we believe?
"Also, he is not even in agreement with the semi-Augustinian position of the post 2nd Orange christian west. And so he really doesn't have a leg to stand on."
ReplyDeleteCould you elaborate or at least give me a link to where I could find out more about this council and what it meant for the West? I have heard of it but my knowledge about it is not much more than that. Most importantly, what do you mean he doesn't have a leg to stand on? Just need a little clarity. Thanks JNorm
John
Ikonophile,
ReplyDeleteYou can find the local western council online. That along with Arles of 473 A.D. were the official western christian view.
Arles was more Semi-Pelagian while 2nd Orange was more semi-Augustinian. Calvinism is against both.
What I meant by having no leg to stand on is in regards to Historic Christianity. We are the embodiment of the great councils and great Eastern Councils. And so if he rejects us then he will also have to reject them.
And in regards to the western tradition, Calvinism isn't consistent with the moderate Augustinian view that the west later embraced.
Calvinism can only point to some of Augustine's later harder teachings that weren't really accepted by the west. The west embraced some of his later views, but not all of it. And so Calvinism doesn't really have a leg to stand on when it comes to christian history.
She really has no historical basis to call anyone heretics without shooting herself in the foot as well.
But yeah, 2nd Orange is a later western moderate Augustinian tradition. It rejected certain things from both Semi-Pelagianism as well as certain implications from hardcore Augustinianism.
I meant great Eastern Fathers.....my bad
ReplyDeleteThanks JNorm.
ReplyDeleteJohn